Women Beyond a Certain Age Podcast

Self-Compassion with Crescent Dragonwagon [Rebroadcast]

The Dragon herself, Crescent Dragonwagon, is with us this week! Our conversation jumps around like “like a cat on a june bug,” which makes it all that much more fascinating. She talks self-compassion, writing, and growing up the child of writers. Crescent has a special offer on her Self-Compassion 101 class for our listeners: https://dragonwagon.com/women-beyond-age/
CRESCENT’S LINKS:
Self-Compassion 101 video: https://fb.watch/aBHT81nmdF/
Website: https://dragonwagon.com
Books: https://www.amazon.com/kindle-dbs/entity/author/B000APJCO0
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/crescent.dragonwagon
Twitter: https://twitter.com/cdragonwagon
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cdragonwagon/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/crescent-dragonwagon-0565b47/
Email: crescent@dragonwagon.com
 
Women Beyond a Certain Age is an award-winning weekly podcast with Denise Vivaldo. She brings her own lively, humorous, and experienced viewpoint to the topics she discusses with her guests. The podcast covers wide-ranging subjects of importance to older women.
 
SHOW LINKS:
Website: https://womenbeyond.podbean.com
Join our Facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/WomenBeyond/
Follow our Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/WomenBeyond/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/womenbeyondacertainage/
Episode archive: https://womenbeyond.podbean.com
Email us: WomenBeyond@icloud.com
Denise Vivaldo is the host of WBACA. Her info lives here: https://denisevivaldogroup.com/
More of Denise’s info is here: https://denisevivaldo.com
Cindie Flannigan is the producer WBACA. Her info lives here: https://linktr.ee/cindieflannigan
Denise and Cindie’s books: https://www.amazon.com/Denise-Vivaldo/e/B001K8QNRA%3Fref=dbs_a_mng_rwt_scns_share

Culture and Cakes with Nancie McDermott [Rebroadcast]

The wonderful Nancie McDermott is with us this week. We talk cakes and anti-racism.
Excerpted from Nancie’s Anti-Racism Facebook page:
“I'm Nancie McDermott, a white woman born and raised in North Carolina. I started this group as a place to look at how powerfully and stealthily racism and anti-Blackness are woven into our systems and institutions…We can move toward creating a place of justice and safety; of compassion and respect, of equity with opportunity for everyone. Knowing the truth can strengthen us to speak up, take action, examine our perspectives, and change things that seemed immovable. Silence means consent, so let's be loud and clear about where we are now, how we got here, where we want to go, and who we want to be: A nation of liberty and justice for all.”
 
Nancie’s links:
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/NancieMcDermott
Nancie’s Anti-Racism Page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/435086244410173
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMeXbPSB2545WygzQxUOcTQ/featured
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nanciemacpix/
Pinterest: https://www.pinterest.com/nanciestable/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/nanciestable
 
Nancie’s Resources:
READ:
Cookbooks and food books (in order of publication):
 
BRAND NEW BOOK on Juneteenth!
Watermelon and Red Birds: A Cookbook for Juneteenth and Black Celebrations, by Nicole Taylor
https://www.amazon.com/Watermelon-Red-Birds-Juneteenth-Celebrations/dp/1982176210
https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Watermelon-and-Red-Birds/Nicole-A-Taylor/9781982176211
 
Cheryl Day’s Treasury of Southern Baking, by Cheryl Day
https://www.amazon.com/Cheryl-Days-Treasury-Southern-Baking/dp/1579658415/ref=sr_1_1?crid=35TSRNNF4ZWZW&keywords=treasury+of+southern+baking&qid=1654185620&s=books&sprefix=treasury+of+southern+baking%2Cstripbooks%2C57&sr=1-1
 
Life Is What You Bake It: Recipes, Stories, and Inspiration for Baking Your Way to the Top, by Vallery Lomas
https://www.amazon.com/Life-What-You-Bake-Inspiration-ebook/dp/B08PY8ZTVB
 
Jubilee: Recipes from Two Centuries of African American Cooking, by Toni Tipton-Martin
https://www.amazon.com/Jubilee-Recipes-Centuries-African-American-Cookbook/dp/1524761737/ref=pd_lpo_3?pd_rd_i=1524761737&psc=1
 
High on the Hog: A Culinary Journey from Africa to America, by Dr. Jessica B. Harris
https://www.amazon.com/High-Hog-Culinary-Journey-America/dp/1608194507/ref=asc_df_1608194507/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312068104930&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=613964457390760630&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1021225&hvtargid=pla-512300006634&psc=1
 
WATCH:
Available on streaming services
 
High on the Hog
Netflix Series
 
When They See Us
Directed by Ava Duvernay
 
Selma
Directed by Ava Duvernay
Amazon
 
Just Mercy
Story of Attorney Bryan Stevenson, founder and director of Equal Justice Initiative (see below)
Amazon Prime
 
Black Panther
Marvel hero T’Challa played by the late Chadwick Bozeman
 
“I Am Not Your Negro”
Documentary on James Baldwin
 
Reconstruction: America After the Civil War
PBS Documentary Series by Dr. Henry Louis Gates
 
MORE RESOURCES:
The Equal Justice Initiative
https://eji.org/
https://eji.org/about/
Visit EJI’s two locations in Montgomery AL:
The National Memorial for Peace and Justice
The Legacy Museum
Sign up for Daily emails from EJI
https://calendar.eji.org/sign-up
 
The 1619 Project: A New American Origin Story, by Nikole Hannah-Jones
https://www.amazon.com/1619-Project-Born-Water/dp/0593307356/ref=pd_bxgy_img_sccl_1/130-0109168-1434738?pd_rd_w=Vnpek&content-id=amzn1.sym.6b3eefea-7b16-43e9-bc45-2e332cbf99da&pf_rd_p=6b3eefea-7b16-43e9-bc45-2e332cbf99da&pf_rd_r=PNRP5942HGGKK4SDR2Z4&pd_rd_wg=crjZq&pd_rd_r=3b079be2-80eb-4c81-980e-8dd9e7d95863&pd_rd_i=0593307356&psc=1
 
 
Born on the Water (The 1619 Project), picture book by Nikole Hannah-Jones
https://www.amazon.com/1619-Project-Born-Water/dp/0593307356/ref=pd_bxgy_img_sccl_1/130-0109168-1434738?pd_rd_w=Vnpek&content-id=amzn1.sym.6b3eefea-7b16-43e9-bc45-2e332cbf99da&pf_rd_p=6b3eefea-7b16-43e9-bc45-2e332cbf99da&pf_rd_r=PNRP5942HGGKK4SDR2Z4&pd_rd_wg=crjZq&pd_rd_r=3b079be2-80eb-4c81-980e-8dd9e7d95863&pd_rd_i=0593307356&psc=1
 
 
Women Beyond a Certain Age is an award-winning weekly podcast with Denise Vivaldo. She brings her own lively, humorous, and experienced viewpoint to the topics she discusses with her guests. The podcast covers wide-ranging subjects of importance to older women.
 
SHOW LINKS
Website: https://womenbeyond.podbean.com
Join our Facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/WomenBeyond/
Follow our Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/WomenBeyond/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/womenbeyondacertainage/
Episode archive: https://womenbeyond.podbean.com
Email us: WomenBeyond@icloud.com
Denise Vivaldo is the host of WBACA. Her info lives here: https://denisevivaldogroup.com/
More of Denise’s info is here: https://denisevivaldo.com
Cindie Flannigan is the producer WBACA. Her info lives here: https://linktr.ee/cindieflannigan
Denise and Cindie’s books: https://www.amazon.com/Denise-Vivaldo/e/B001K8QNRA%3Fref=dbs_a_mng_rwt_scns_share
Find us on Podbean, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen!
https://womenbeyond.podbean.com/e/more-stephanie-hersh-more-fun/ https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/women-beyond-a-certain-age-podcast/id1430084217?i=1000563116865
 
 

Tanya Holland’s California Soul Journey

Chef Tanya Holland is with us this week to talk about her journey to becoming Executive Chef and Owner of the internationally renowned and beloved Brown Sugar Kitchen restaurant, in Oakland, California. She is acclaimed for her inventive take on modern soul food, as well as comfort classics. Her newest book, Tanya Holland’s California Soul, features recipes influenced by the historical migration of African American families, including Tanya’s own, using key ingredients, techniques, and traditions that African Americans brought with them as they left the South for California, creating a beloved version of soul food. In addition to 80 delicious and comforting recipes, there are stories about fifteen contemporary Black Californian food artisans whose work helps define California soul food today.  
She is also the author of The Brown Sugar Kitchen Cookbook and New Soul Cooking. Holland competed on the 15th season of Top Chef on Bravo, was the host and soul food expert on Food Network’s Melting Pot, she appears on the new HBO Max show Selena + Chef featuring Selena Gomez, and is the host of “Tanya’s Kitchen Table” on OWN: Oprah Winfrey Network.
She is a member of the Board of Trustees, a frequent contributing writer and chef at the James Beard Foundation, and Brown Sugar Kitchen (Oakland, CA) has received multiple Michelin Bib Gourmand awards. She is an in-demand public speaker and lecturer who frequently leads the conversation on inclusion and equity in the hospitality industry.
Holland leads a critically acclaimed podcast “Tanya’s Table” produced by MuddHouse Media, interviewing many celebrity guests in Season One such as Questlove, Samin Nosrat, Alice Waters, Danny Meyer, Jesse Tyler Ferguson, Bassem Youssef, and Carla Hall. Season Two of “Tanya’s Table” features special guests Ayesha Curry, Danny Glover, Bonnie Raitt, Phil Rosenthal, Lars Ulrich, Lizz Wright, Ericka Huggins, Jonny Moseley, and others.
Holland has served as the president of the prestigious Les Dames d’Escoffier San Francisco chapter. The City of Oakland declared June 5th, 2012, as Tanya Holland Day for her "Significant Role in Creating Community and Establishing Oakland as a Culinary Center".
Holland holds a Bachelor of Arts in Russian Language and Literature from the University of Virginia, as well as a Grande Diplôme from La Varenne Ecole de Cuisine in Burgundy, France.
 
TANYA’S LINKS:
Website: https://www.tanyaholland.com
Tanya Holland’s California Soul: https://a.co/d/2eeWLik
The Brown Sugar Kitchen Cookbook: https://a.co/d/7obR3TG
Newsletter: https://tanyaholland.substack.com/p/welcome-to-tanyas-kitchen-bulletin
Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/tanyas-table-podcast/id1524657839
Tanya’s Kitchen Table on OWN: https://www.oprah.com/app/tanyas-kitchen-table.html
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tanya-holland-a95a283/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mstanyaholland/
 
Women Beyond a Certain Age is an award-winning weekly podcast with Denise Vivaldo. She brings her own lively, humorous, and experienced viewpoint to the topics she discusses with her guests. The podcast covers wide-ranging subjects of importance to older women.
 
SHOW LINKS
Website: https://womenbeyond.podbean.com
Join our Facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/WomenBeyond/
Follow our Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/WomenBeyond/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/womenbeyondacertainage/
Episode archive: https://womenbeyond.podbean.com
Email us: WomenBeyond@icloud.com
Denise Vivaldo is the host of WBACA. Her info lives here: https://denisevivaldogroup.com/
More of Denise’s info is here: https://denisevivaldo.com
Cindie Flannigan is the producer WBACA. Her info lives here: https://linktr.ee/cindieflannigan
Denise and Cindie’s books: https://www.amazon.com/Denise-Vivaldo/e/B001K8QNRA%3Fref=dbs_a_mng_rwt_scns_share

11 Tips for Healthier Eating with Pat Greenberg

Gal-pal of the podcast, Pat Greenberg, is with us to decipher the confusing information around healthy eating. She brings it back to the basics for an effortless approach to having a healthy kitchen. This episode is for anyone who wants to lose some weight, get more fit, or just to be healthier and feel better.
Below are suggestions for healthier eating using common food items most of have on hand or can easily get. Making small changes are easier, and they add up to success!
No matter what meal you are eating and what’s on your plate, always start with a big glass of water. 
Start out by only eating treats outside of the house. Celebrations at restaurants, parties and milestone events are fine but keeping your kitchen clean of treats will keep you on track.
Every meal should include a serving of fruits and vegetables. Pizza with veggies is a perfect example.
Any protein will do, beef, chicken, fish, beans, and (my go-to) eggs.
Dairy products are fine, just don’t consume any that are artificially prepared or colored.
Breads should be sourdough or whole grain.
Instead of a candy bar, substitute a bowl of nuts and chocolate chips.
Instead of straight up soda, add seltzer to it.  
Always be mindful of portions sizes.
Stick with foods you enjoy, life should always be happy!
Lastly, if you are having trouble, it’s often emotional so do get yourself some help.
Ushering in a new era of bite sized livable health, nutrition and fitness solutions, Pat practices what she preaches. A working wife and mother, she has 30 years of experience as a Certified Nutritionist, Chef, and Wellness educator. She lives a healthy lifestyle in an often-chaotic world through good food and attainable fitness. Patricia runs The Fitness Gourmet, a wellness consulting firm that specializes in teaching seminars nationwide. She has a special interest in enhancing the education of the public, providing accurate nutrition and health information to today’s consumer which has had an impact on the lives and health of thousands of people.
PAT’S LINKS:
Website: https://www.patriciagreenberg.com
Email Pat a question: thefitnessgourmet@mac.com
Buy Pat’s book: https://www.amazon.com/Patricia-Greenberg/e/B001IR1E2
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thefitnessgourmet
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/PatriciaGreenberg
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/patgreenbergthefitnessgourmet/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thefitnessgourmet/
 
Women Beyond a Certain Age is an award-winning weekly podcast with Denise Vivaldo. She brings her own lively, humorous, and experienced viewpoint to the topics she discusses with her guests. The podcast covers wide-ranging subjects of importance to older women.
SHOW LINKS
Website: https://womenbeyond.podbean.com
Join our Facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/WomenBeyond/
Follow our Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/WomenBeyond/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/womenbeyondacertainage/
Episode archive: https://womenbeyond.podbean.com
Email us: WomenBeyond@icloud.com
Denise Vivaldo is the host of WBACA. Her info lives here: https://denisevivaldogroup.com/
More of Denise’s info is here: https://denisevivaldo.com
Cindie Flannigan is the producer WBACA. Her info lives here: https://linktr.ee/cindieflannigan
Denise and Cindie’s books: https://www.amazon.com/Denise-Vivaldo/e/B001K8QNRA%3Fref=dbs_a_mng_rwt_scns_share

Beautify Your Money with Mikelann Valterra

Seattle Money Coach Mikelann tells us “Beauty makes me feel like I am really living and savoring my life. So why would this be less true in our money and financial life? I want my financial life to be beautiful as well. I want to bring beauty to my money! Otherwise, it is a place of clutter and disorder (and conveys an internal message that I don’t care or honor my money—so really—since I haven’t made it a nice home, why should it stick around??!)  Without beauty, my money life feels like that back kitchen drawer I resist opening, or the closet we have crammed full of stuff… So, we stay away… Let the conversation begin!”
Mikelann is an author, keynote speaker and money coach who helps women transform their relationship with money to create a life they love. For over 20 years, she has been a thought leader in the field of Financial Psychology. Her strong background in emotional intelligence, paired with her practical money strategies enable her clients to consciously design their life, while escaping financial stress and anxiety.
 
MIKELANN’S LINKS:
Website and free ebook: www.seattlemoneycoach.com
Twitter: https://twitter.com/mikelann
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/SeattleMoneyCoach
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/seattlemoneycoach/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MikelannSeattleMoneyCoach
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikelannvalterra/
Pinterest: https://www.pinterest.com/seattlemoneycoach/
 
Women Beyond a Certain Age is an award-winning weekly podcast hosted by Denise Vivaldo. She brings her own lively, humorous, and experienced viewpoint to the topics she discusses with her guests. The podcast covers wide-ranging subjects of importance to older women.
 
SHOW LINKS
Website: https://womenbeyond.podbean.com
Join our Facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/WomenBeyond/
Follow our Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/WomenBeyond/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/womenbeyondacertainage/
Episode archive: https://womenbeyond.podbean.com
Email us: WomenBeyond@icloud.com
Denise Vivaldo’s info lives here: https://denisevivaldogroup.com/
More of Denise’s info is here: https://denisevivaldo.com
Cindie Flannigan’s info lives here: https://linktr.ee/cindieflannigan
Denise and Cindie’s books: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Denise-Vivaldo/author/B001K8QNRA

Tenacious Bitch with Raghavan Iyer

Raghavan Iyer calls himself “a tenacious bitch,” not letting his terminal diagnosis and endless rounds of chemotherapy stop him from completing his last book, On the Curry Trail: Chasing the Flavor that Seduced the World. If you are lucky enough to know Raghavan, you have been blessed. If you don’t know him, it’s well worth your time to search out more information about him. And to learn more about curry from his books!
Raghavan has a GoFundMe campaign Revival Foods Project: Global Comforts that Heal. This project will bring comfort food from around the world to patients battling the brutal effects of chemo and other health challenges. Inspired by his own experience, Raghavan’s goal is to bring more globally inspired and culturally relevant recipes into hospitals and other health care settings to provide nourishment, joy, and healing to patients from diverse backgrounds.
 
RAGHAVAN’S LINKS:
Website: http://www.raghavaniyer.com
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/raghavan.iyer
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/raghavaniyer/
Buy the book: https://a.co/d/3xAHZF7
GoFundMe: https://gofund.me/671ae4eb
 
Women Beyond a Certain Age is an award-winning weekly podcast hosted by Denise Vivaldo. She brings her own lively, humorous, and experienced viewpoint to the topics she discusses with her guests. The podcast covers wide-ranging subjects of importance to older women.
 
SHOW LINKS
Website: https://womenbeyond.podbean.com
Join our Facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/WomenBeyond/
Follow our Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/WomenBeyond/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/womenbeyondacertainage/
Episode archive: https://womenbeyond.podbean.com
Email us: WomenBeyond@icloud.com
Denise Vivaldo’s info lives here: https://denisevivaldogroup.com/
More of Denise’s info is here: https://denisevivaldo.com
Cindie Flannigan’s info lives here: https://linktr.ee/cindieflannigan
Denise and Cindie’s books: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Denise-Vivaldo/author/B001K8QNRA

Agent Extraordinaire Sally Ekus

Agent Extraordinaire Sally Ekus tells us that the better your cookbook proposal, the bigger the advance. Does your proposal pass the “toddler test?” Listen in to find out what this magical test is!
Sally is the lead agent and co-owner at The Ekus Group, a full-service culinary agency specializing in Literary and Talent representation. She represents a wide range of culinary, health, wellness, and lifestyle talent, from first-time cookbook authors to seasoned chefs, RDs, professional food writers and bloggers, and internet and YouTube personalities. From concept to contract, she has brokered over 300 book deals with top publishers including Penguin Random House, HarperCollins, Hachette, Simon & Schuster, and numerous indie publishers. To honor The Ekus Group’s 40th anniversary in April 2022, she launched a self-paced online course called How to Write a Cookbook. Its bite-sized curriculum distills 4 decades of cookbook publishing knowledge into less than 3 hours. Leveraging Sally’s expertise, aspiring authors are already fast-tracking their success by overcoming the steep learning curve of today’s evolving industry climate.
 
SALLY’S LINKS:
How to Write a Cookbook: https://teg.podia.com/how-to-write-a-cookbook
Ekus Group proposal guidelines: https://ekusgroup.com/submission-requirements/
Website: https://ekusgroup.com/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/howtobeacookbookauthor
Ekus Group Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ekusgroup/
Sally Ekus Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sallyekus/
First Generation cookbook: https://a.co/d/9VKSpb3
Blue Moon Soup: https://a.co/d/0HUmjeA
 
Women Beyond a Certain Age is an award-winning weekly podcast hosted by Denise Vivaldo. She brings her own lively, humorous, and experienced viewpoint to the topics she discusses with her guests. The podcast covers wide-ranging subjects of importance to older women.
 
SHOW LINKS
Website: https://womenbeyond.podbean.com
Join our Facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/WomenBeyond/
Follow our Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/WomenBeyond/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/womenbeyondacertainage/
Episode archive: https://womenbeyond.podbean.com
Email us: WomenBeyond@icloud.com
Denise Vivaldo’s info lives here: https://denisevivaldogroup.com/
More of Denise’s info is here: https://denisevivaldo.com
Cindie Flannigan’s info lives here: https://linktr.ee/cindieflannigan
Denise and Cindie’s books: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Denise-Vivaldo/author/B001K8QNRA

Amid the Corn with Cristina Potters

Cristina Potters is back with us for another information-packed episode, this time we talk about corn! Corn tops rice and wheat for the most produced crop in the world. Corn is over 7000 years old and originated in central Mexico. Cristina gives us a glimpse into the world of corn!
Cristina is a Chicago native, arrived in Mexico in 1981.  After several years as a social worker in the Tijuana city jail, she lived in Mexico City, then in a tiny village in Michoacán, and subsequently resided for many years in the state of Jalisco, including in Guadalajara. Long a permanent fixture in Morelia, Michoacán, she holds dual Mexican and United States citizenship.
 
Cristina learned the cuisines of the central highlands of Mexico from the source: the mayoras (extraordinary older home cooks) who have been her friends for over 40 years. She has mastered the intricacies of many traditional Mexican recipes, flavors, and of course, the delights of the pre-Hispanic corn and chile kitchen.
 
Mexico Cooks!, Cristina’s website about all things Mexico, has been named the number one food blog in the world by the London Times. Praised and quoted in newspapers as diverse as the New York Times, Guadalajara’s El Mural, the South China Morning Post, and the Chicago Tribune, Mexico Cooks!  is the internet’s most authoritative voice about the cuisines and cultures of central Mexico. The first person to write online in English about Mexico’s cuisines, she is cited as the go-to expert on Mexico in Lonely Planet Mexico and is quoted in Time Out Mexico City. Cristina and Mexico Cooks! currently boast between six and seven million readers throughout the world.
 
CRISTINAS’S LINKS:
Website: Mexico Cooks!
Twitter: @mexicocooks
Facebook: Mexico Cooks
Instagram: @mexicocooks44
Email: patalarga@gmail.com
 
Women Beyond a Certain Age is an award-winning weekly podcast hosted by Denise Vivaldo. She brings her own lively, humorous, and experienced viewpoint to the topics she discusses with her guests. The podcast covers wide-ranging subjects of importance to older women.
 
SHOW LINKS
Website: https://womenbeyond.podbean.com
Join our Facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/WomenBeyond/
Follow our Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/WomenBeyond/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/womenbeyondacertainage/
Episode archive: https://womenbeyond.podbean.com
Email us: WomenBeyond@icloud.com
Denise Vivaldo’s info lives here: https://denisevivaldogroup.com/
More of Denise’s info is here: https://denisevivaldo.com
Cindie Flannigan’s info lives here: https://linktr.ee/cindieflannigan
Denise and Cindie’s books: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Denise-Vivaldo/author/B001K8QNRA